interesting discussion
Sep. 17th, 2004 11:10 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
winterbadgerfrom a discussion of Angel here:
I'm not sure that I think that it's everyone's nature to be good. I think that it's in everyone's nature to fulfill their own desires. And that some, many, people are conditioned at an early age to find happiness in fulfilling the needs (or desires) of others.
I think for some people that conditioning is reinforced by social means (a failure to follow the imperative towards considering the needs of others will result in social isolation), or by the image of a vengeful god (god will hurt you if you're not good to other people) or a god who leads by example (god helps people, so how can we do any less?), by programming of the self (if you don't help others, you will be a bad person), or simply by self-interest (if people always help those in need, then everyone in need--including someday probably you--will get help when they need it). Obviously the motivations that depend on a complusive deity are the most effective, if you can convince people to believe in the deity; I may be able to convince myself I don't care what other people think of me or socila or self-programming are just imposed on me from the outside and don't have any real moral force, but if there really is a god then its desires are presumably irresistable.
See, I think it's people's nature to be good, and from there it's a long slide down toward evil. You can stop it at any point by simply taking action. Something has to start that downward slide, though...
I'm not sure that I think that it's everyone's nature to be good. I think that it's in everyone's nature to fulfill their own desires. And that some, many, people are conditioned at an early age to find happiness in fulfilling the needs (or desires) of others.
I think for some people that conditioning is reinforced by social means (a failure to follow the imperative towards considering the needs of others will result in social isolation), or by the image of a vengeful god (god will hurt you if you're not good to other people) or a god who leads by example (god helps people, so how can we do any less?), by programming of the self (if you don't help others, you will be a bad person), or simply by self-interest (if people always help those in need, then everyone in need--including someday probably you--will get help when they need it). Obviously the motivations that depend on a complusive deity are the most effective, if you can convince people to believe in the deity; I may be able to convince myself I don't care what other people think of me or socila or self-programming are just imposed on me from the outside and don't have any real moral force, but if there really is a god then its desires are presumably irresistable.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
and shooting from my hip
Date: 2004-09-17 11:46 pm (UTC)This desire for security manifests itself in a desire for certainity. A desire to make sense of your environment and one's future.
Thats my take on religion, god is the absolute provider of certainty. Don't understand it? It's all allright because it's god will. What happens when youi die? God takes you in.
God answers all the grey areas in our quest for a comprehensive world view.
I envy those people who can so blindly believe in something that can offer such succor.
As for the inherit goodness of a persons nature. I counter with the argument that good and bad are arbitrary concepts born of the human desire to label and make sense of the world and have no bearing in reality.
Rather what we percieve as good is merely those actions that reassure our world views and reinforce our beliefs.