many thanks!
Nov. 2nd, 2006 08:58 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
winterbadgerThanks to everyone who replied to my previous post; I was trying (not entirely successfully) not to make replies myself because I was more interested in hearing other people's points of view than in having a debate.
I would be interested, however, in discussing reactions to the proposition, outlined in the op-ed Brooke mentioned and elsewhere, that the niqab is not part of the cultural norms of western society, and that the same sort of consideration for western norms ought to apply to people who bring their customs to our countries that people of other nations expect when we westerners visit their countries. Yes, not every western person is offended or upset by women wearing the niqab, but then not every Arab or Afghan or Pakistani is upset by the sight of western people wearing shorts; the fact that *some* will be is considered enough for the courteous visitor to respect local custom, however.
And, yes, I realise that many Muslims who follow traditional practices are not "visitors" to the US or the UK but natives, born citizens of those countries. But I hesitated to use the phrase "born and bred"; clearly they are *not* "bred", that is, brought up in the traditional uses and practices of the nations they live in. Just as the children of US otr UK diplomats or other expatriates living in other countries often adopt a few (or none) of the local customs, may learn the local language, but often do not integrate, these are people who, for whatever reason, choose to live in western countries but not integrate into the populations. So, to my mind, these practices are still foreign practices.
Just my opinions; interested to see what other people say.
I would be interested, however, in discussing reactions to the proposition, outlined in the op-ed Brooke mentioned and elsewhere, that the niqab is not part of the cultural norms of western society, and that the same sort of consideration for western norms ought to apply to people who bring their customs to our countries that people of other nations expect when we westerners visit their countries. Yes, not every western person is offended or upset by women wearing the niqab, but then not every Arab or Afghan or Pakistani is upset by the sight of western people wearing shorts; the fact that *some* will be is considered enough for the courteous visitor to respect local custom, however.
And, yes, I realise that many Muslims who follow traditional practices are not "visitors" to the US or the UK but natives, born citizens of those countries. But I hesitated to use the phrase "born and bred"; clearly they are *not* "bred", that is, brought up in the traditional uses and practices of the nations they live in. Just as the children of US otr UK diplomats or other expatriates living in other countries often adopt a few (or none) of the local customs, may learn the local language, but often do not integrate, these are people who, for whatever reason, choose to live in western countries but not integrate into the populations. So, to my mind, these practices are still foreign practices.
Just my opinions; interested to see what other people say.
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no subject
Date: 2006-11-02 05:08 pm (UTC)Having said that, I'll reiterate that if that mode of dress is what a given woman prefers, it should be up to her so long as it doesn't interfere with her work (or on appropriate occasions, security concerns).
I think the occurence that more strongly highlights the problems with the integration refusal of some members of the Muslim community is currently going on at the Minneapolis-St. Paul airport and in other cities in the Midwest. There's a bit of a scuffle taking place, because a lot of the Muslim cab drivers who work the airport queue have decided that they're going to refuse to transport passengers who violate their Islamic standards for conduct. In addition to refusing passage to people who have alcohol on their persons, this has extended to cab drivers refusing to transport disabled passengers with service animals because dogs are "unclean." The fact that this is a blatant violation of the Americans With Disabilities Act doesn't seem to matter to these guys. Do they think the law doesn't apply to them because they're Muslim? Or do they not think of themselves as American? Something to think about.