&quot;I have been but little in,&quot; said Ninian hastily...

The fact that she has to lower her voice on the Tube is a clue. She probably just came across as a loud, brash, obnoxious person -- and the fact that she's American just added to the stereotype.

I have noticed that when I'm in public here in the UK, I speak much more quietly than I used to in public in the US. I also notice that American friends visiting seem loud -- when I didn't used to think they were so in the US.

Of course, I did buy a 'Don't blame me, I voted for Kerry' t-shirt whilst in the US recently. ;)

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I'm a bit puzzled, because I've never experienced any problems, either when visiting or when living in London. Maybe I'm just missing most of the trademark "American" things that set people off, but the only people who think I *sound* British are cabdrivers in the US. :-)

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What's funny is that on this trip to the US people kept telling me I have a British accent, which is funny because I clearly don't.

My sister tried to clarify one man's confusion by stating that I didn't sound like a Pennsylvanian. (I am a Pennsylvania native, but I've not lived there since '79 when I moved to Colorado.)

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sioneva.livejournal.com

I got whaled on for about fifteen minutes at my brother-in-law's girlfriend's HOUSE because Americans didn't enter WWII early enough and why were we all so apathetic and...and...and. Never mind that both of my grandfathers were enlisted in the war and one of them was wounded TWICE.

I don't generally get it everyday but I've certainly had instances where people go off on me about American politics. So while I don't think it's anything like as widespread as she seems to imply, I've certainly had a fair few unpleasant encounters due to my accent. This despite the fact that many people have been shocked that I AM American because I tend to be so quiet and reserved!

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This despite the fact that many people have been shocked that I AM American because I tend to be so quiet and reserved!

Oh, I'm sure--major points for not being loud and boorish!

Thinking about it, what must seem distressing to some is that normally English people in particular are *so* reserved in public and don't just push their way into other people's personal space that for someone to break that boundary *and* launch straight into telling one how much one's president sucks or how deficient Americans were when it came to "the War" or whatever.

I'm convinced that at least part of the different experience I've had is that most of my more recent experience has been in Scotland. Scots (especially Glaswegians) are a lot more outgoing than the English, so one is a lot more likely to hear their opinions (solicited or not), but they're (at least in my experience) also more easy-going.

Another thought: unless one lives in a small town, it must be a fairly common thing for Brits to assume that anyone they encounter who seems identifiably American is a tourist/visitor. And it's my observation that *universally* locals feel much less inhibited about unbelting to tourists about "what you lot do/think/whatever" or giving them the third degree about their cultural practices/foods/politics. There's something about the "well, they'll be gone tomorrow, so the normal rules don't apply" nature of the situation. Somewhat less for people actually in the tourist trade (hotleiers, restaurant people, guides) but even there there's a tendency to feel they need to engage the other person, if only to make them feel welcome.

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Unfortunately you can't just blame it on being a "loud yank"--I know people who have gotten this kind of crap and they don't yell on the Tube. One woman I know got it in her local village shop.

I used to get it a lot on an English BBS.

People just think Americans are still an OK target. Sad, but true.

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Whilst I'm not doubting her account, it does make me wonder since I've never been treated in the manner she describes. Of course, I am almost twenty years her senior. I don't know if that has anything to do with it, but it might. I'm a fairly non-threatening middle-aged woman.

On the other hand, she didn't need to yell on the tube to be considered loud. See my comment above. Since I've resided here in the UK, I tend to find most Americans a lot louder than I used to when I lived in the US. I know that I have toned down my public voice, and whilst I don't have an English accent (despite a number of Americans thinking I did on this recent visit to the US -- trust me, I don't have an English accent at all), I don't sound distinctly American neither.

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I'm pretty non-threatening looking myself--honestly the only "American" thing about my appearance is that I'm overweight and that's hardly uncommon in the UK either :-) I live in London, and I can usually spot americans on the tube by sight. I never get random abuse but I do hear plenty of things said about Americans that offend me. At least once a week there will be some stupid comment in a newspaper or magazine that sends me into a rage. Writers will actually say, point blank, "Americans are thick". And if you complain people just say "you need a thicker skin". (Forget complaining about anti-Semitism. The newspapers will focus on the latest Ken Livingstone flap, but you rarely read in the non-Jewish media about people getting beaten up--except when Panorama accuses the CST of inflating stats. One Jewish high school is having to change its start and end times because the kids get beaten up and harassed on their way home.)

voice wise, I try to remember to keep my voice down but for me being loud isn't American; it's because i'm a New York Jew. ;) (And I lived with my refused-to-believe-she-needs-a-hearing-aid grandmother.) My accent's softened slightly but it's still pretty distinctive, especially if I've just phoned home.

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I was a Philadelphian part-Jew.

This year, I finally decide to shut up and accept that Christmas is considered secular here. *sigh* (I'm part Reformed Jew, part Wiccan. :)

I live out in the New Forest; I'm not in London that often. You want to talk about lack of Jews or anything kosher? Okay, there are a lot of Wiccans out here, at least. ;)

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This year, I finally decide to shut up and accept that Christmas is considered secular here.

One of my favourite Harry Potter comments from an American: "How can you say there's no religion in those books!? They're always going on about Christmas!" :-)

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*LOL* I live in Finchley. The only way I could get MORE Jewish would be to move a mile away to Hendon or Golders Green. ;)

But you want Christmas fun? The kosher butchers here sell turkeys at Christmas. Not celebrating Christmas here is like the mark of the really frum. Kosher Christmas dinner is not an oxymoron in Britain!

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Before I moved here, when I visited England and London, I used to stay in a b&b in Golders Green. I remember doing laundry at a laundrette one Friday morning and smelling the challah baking at a nearby bakery. :)

We buy organic goose from a local organic farmer, but I don't think they're kosher. :) Kosher turkeys? Cool. Of course, one year I was looking for Chanukah cards in Southampton. It took me five shops. At two of them, the clerks didn't even know what Chanukah was. *sigh* I was tempted to say something about how they must not have paid much attention in RE. ;)

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ooh, which one? we've got quite a selection round this way... my favourite is Daniels for bagels (I mostly don't like the Israeli-style bakeries but the bagels there are really good), Sharons for cakes. (mmm poppy seed cakes)

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I live in London, and I can usually spot americans on the tube by sight.

My classic experience was trying to blend in in 1980s London and getting spotted by a VERY LOUD American tourist on a bus who decided to make a pal of me and dropped a string of (at least some of them inadvertant) slighting remarks about Britain, the British, their transportation system, their food, their politics, their economy, their music, their clothes, their teenagers' hair colour--and then asked me to explain how "this play money works".

Sadly, I gave in to devilish temptation and explained the pre-decimal currency sytem to him in great detail (there were still plenty of shilling and two-shilling pieces in circulation then, which helped). And then got off at the next stop. I swear I saw some grins on the way out.

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easy-living.livejournal.com

I swear I saw some grins on the way out.

Given the way I just spluttered with laughter, I can practically guarantee that you did :)

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pusscat.livejournal.com

It's not the first time I have heard this kind of thing, but the depth of it surprises me. I don't think the UK is more racist than the US, but I /do/ think it's more openly racist (presumably because British people are a lot less concerned about political correctness and less litigious - although this is changing).

I have never felt like a target of hatred, but it is certainly exhausting when any random Brit who has a negative opinion of the US (be it government, culture, or a bad experience on holiday in Florida) seems to think that they have some sort of obligation to air it to any American they meet. Or those better informed people whom I meet more often in the social groups I tend to run with who speak with great authority and varying levels of accuracy about how things "really are" in the US. I have, however, found a way of dealing with this which both defuses any potential bad feeling, shuts them up, and amuses me. Whatever stereotype or negative aspect of America they are expounding on (which is, of course, usually the government) I endorse it with as deadpan an expression as I can manage. Ranting about Bush? "I voted for him". Proliferation of guns? "I'm an NRA member". Litigiousness? "Yeah, I made my first million in a lawsuit against a small business after I slipped on a freshly mopped floor. As a strategy, I would recommend it.

I still haven't figured out quite how to deal with the people I know - several of whom I have an enormous amount of respect for - who seem to reject various stuff (usually pop culture) out of hand simply because it's American. I mean, I know we have released some duff crap on the world and I know that the UK has exported genius far out of proportion to its size, but anyone who has watched a random BBC sitcom (My Hero, anyone?) will know that British origin does not guarantee quality.

And it doesn't help matters that the Americans who come here as tourists /are/ often overprivileged, overfed, undereducated stereotypes. And many who settle here don't seem particularly interested in assimilating to any great degree. I work with an American child whose parents won't allow said child to have anything to do with Halloween - because they are Christians. Well, frankly if you have that kind of closed minded attitude, why leave the Bible belt? My partner was listening to a podcast the other day and the (presumably massively intelligent) American guy who was lecturing kept talking about EEdenberg. Said guy did not, as far as I know, live in the UK, but imagine choosing that particular subject to discuss and then not even bothering to learn to pronounce it? No wonder the average British "man on the street" thinks Americans are ignorant.

But enough ranting. I'm obviously overtired and the proverbial nerve was touched.

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it is certainly exhausting when any random Brit who has a negative opinion of the US ... seems to think that they have some sort of obligation to air it to any American they meet.

Yep, I can imagine it would. I had a grand total of one such encounter the last time I was there (which turned inot a rather interesting conversation with a chap who owned the small convenience store--what do you call a tobacconist's that doesn't sell any tobacco?--where I was buying a wristwatch), but getting it day in and day out would be wearing and annyoing to sayt eh least, I can only imagine.

That strategy you describe is quite novel. I can see that it might work very well indeed. :-)

[rejecting stuff out of hand] Yeah, that's a bit of a poser. Of course, the other waya round it really doesn't apply so much, as Americans geenrally tend to assume anything British is good. :-) Though Brits visitign American must get awffully tired of words like "cute", and "quaint", and "little". :-) I would imagine people whose culture gets rejected out of hand in the US would be more, well good heavens, I'm sure the poor French. Talk about people getting abuse: I *really* feel sorry for any French people who come to the US. My housemates hosted a visiting photographer last year who seemed quite a nice fellow; I'm sure he was insulated from most of any obnoxiousness he might have gotten by the fact he spoke *no* English (I can't even imagine the fortitude it would take to travel by yourself in a country where you spoke none of the local language). But the sheer *casualness* of the abuse that gets heaped on anything French ("cheese-eating surrender monkeys") is unbelievable.

And it doesn't help matters that the Americans who come here as tourists /are/ often overprivileged, overfed, undereducated stereotypes. And many who settle here don't seem particularly interested in assimilating to any great degree.

Yeah, that's one of the things that bugs me about a lot of the posting on that other board I was mentioning the other day. "Why don't they have XYZ? Why do they do ABC different from the way we did it *back home*? They're so strange about QRS." Yes, folks, that's because you're living in *another country*! And if you're talking about settling there and still thinking of the US as "back home", there's a problem...

I work with an American child whose parents won't allow said child to have anything to do with Halloween - because they are Christians. Well, frankly if you have that kind of closed minded attitude, why leave the Bible belt?

Eeek! Indeed! Well, there are those who live abroad for work reasons and wish they didn't have to, and those of us who don't have jobs that take us overseasa and wish they did! :-)

Said guy did not, as far as I know, live in the UK, but imagine choosing that particular subject to discuss and then not even bothering to learn to pronounce it?

Couldn't help but chuckle, because that made me think of some stern words

magaidhbhan had for a fellow who was making an address at the Scottish Parliament in relation to Gaelic heritage and hadn't even bothered to learn how to pronounce "failte" properly! :-) And she's certainly one in the eye for the "all Americans are berks" brigade: someone who comes over just for a year and learns a language that even most of the natives don't know!

But enough ranting. I'm obviously overtired and the proverbial nerve was touched.

Well, that was a pretty gentle rant, all things considered. :-)

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pusscat.livejournal.com

Would like to do a longer and more considered response but still need to get showered and to bed in time for work tomorrow. Re: lazy speeches - every year we go to see comedians in the Fringe who either mispronounce the name of the city (though never as Eedenberg, usually as Edinburro. Seems to be the most common incorrect pronunciation and they never seem to pick up on it being wrong - I don't get where the "o" comes from in the first place) or in the case of Emo Phillips a few years back, refer to "Scotch people". Poor Emo. He got away with it a couple of times, although you could pretty much sense the entire audience counting to ten both times, but when he did it a thrid time someone had to shout him down. They were nice enough about it and his act still went down well, but there should probably be some kind of mandatory Fringe guide for performers that explains stuff like this to them and could stop the less talented (and therefore forgivable ones) from alienating half their audience in the first ten minutes.

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thespis-mellie.livejournal.com

I've actually not run into any problems -- most people just think it's cool and interesting that I'm American. I usually have to put up with some Bush ranting but that's fine with me since I think he's a twat too :) I also have to answer 0986798769876 questions (Why did you move to England? If I moved to the US, I'd never want to leave! Is it hot there? Are there lots of black people? Do you know lots of famous people? Is it like it is on TV? etc. etc. etc.)

The only time it might have been an issue was at parents evening, when a couple of Y10 parents asked me how I could teach English since British English wasn't my native language. I just laughed and said that I knew where the extra 'u's go.

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I've actually not run into any problems -- most people just think it's cool and interesting that I'm American. I usually have to put up with some Bush ranting but that's fine with me since I think he's a twat too :)

Even a lot of Americans who asre staying in America think that. ;-) By 2008, I think it will ba almsot as hard to find people who admit they voted for Bush as it was in 1945 to find Germans who would admit to having voted NSDAP. :-)

I also have to answer 0986798769876 questions (Why did you move to England? If I moved to the US, I'd never want to leave! Is it hot there? Are there lots of black people? Do you know lots of famous people? Is it like it is on TV? etc. etc. etc.)

Those are good ones! There are all sorts of creative answers to some of those...

The only time it might have been an issue was at parents evening, when a couple of Y10 parents asked me how I could teach English since British English wasn't my native language. I just laughed and said that I knew where the extra 'u's go.

Yes, if I ever got an editing job there, I'd anticipate authors who didn't like my changes pulling out that card. :-)

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pusscat.livejournal.com

The UK v. US English thing works both ways - a couple of years ago I went to see one of my favourite (children's) writers, Lauren Child, at the book festival. One of her books is called "My Uncle is a Hunkle, Says Clarice Bean" and she was told she would have to change the title in America because the word "hunkle" doesn't mean anything there. Wonder what those same people would have made of Dr Seuss?

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You astonish me. :-)

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duchess33.livejournal.com

So are you saying the Brits are a nation of Haters? :)

Did the Nazis get too close to the UK in the war? Damm Nazis!

Who really likes foreigners except for Americans, and even then we only like certain ones.

Most Americans have identity crisis and deeply desire to be something they are not (celebrities, royalty, wealthy, powerful) I think because we are a Nation of Immigrants there are so many nationalities we just don't know what or who to be? Therefore being loud and obnoxious is a way to act out..

I don't necessarily agree with this, and I am just glad that I don't live in China :)

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[I] have found almost without exception at their core the vast majority [of Americans] are supportive about people who would wish to join their nation.

I urge you never to venture too far into the heartland. :-) I don't know how widely you've travelled in "fly-over country", but I find that my American friends who have lived most of their lives in the urban and suburban portions of the East and West Coasts never really understand how very, very different lives and attitudes are in places like Texas, Kansas, Missouri, even the upper Midwest. Even in more rural areas of Virginia, Maryland, and Pennsylvania.

Of course, also, you're white and (literally) Anglo, so you can pass almost anywhere in the US for a member of the dominant ethnic population. I think if you polled, for instance, the large Salvadoran-origin population of the DC area you would find their experience of welcome has been rather different. :-(

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The three weeks I recently spent in St. Louis only reinforced my experience of being welcomed...

St. Louis is about as representative of Missouri as Arlington is of Virginia or NYC of New Yor State. :-)

Given Texas' reliance on immigrant population to keep the state running, it would make sense that a majority of the state were pragmatic...

Texans are not noted for their pragamtism, or their connection to reality in general. :-)

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zoefruitcake.livejournal.com

You get good and bad everywhere, both natives and visitors. If you are from the south or north in England you have to expect a certain amount of 'ribbing' about your accent when you visit the other camp. It's just the way we are! A loud northerner in London would get just as much notice as a loud American, in a lot of places just fitting in to the background is a prized skill.
My friend lives in London, and says it is difficult to not resent the huge numbers of tourist decending on the city when you are trying to do your everyday business. Living down here on the coast we are also inundated with tourist, but I can't say I find it as difficult.
I wonder how much of it is what we would consider to be just teasing

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