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winterbadgerAdded: The UK Government have decided I am not worthy of moving to the UK.
IMPORTANT CHANGES APRIL 1, 2009
Please note that the UK Government has announced tougher criteria for Tier 1 (General) applicants which will take effect on April 1, 2009. The qualification and salary required to be eligible for Tier 1 (General) will be raised to a Master's degree and minimum annual salary of £20,000.
Sodding Home Office.
ETA (my emphasis):
Changes for the T1 (General) and T1 (Post-Study Work) categories will come into effect for all applications submitted on or after 31 March 2009.
The Tier 1 (General) changes will apply to migrants who are applying for permission to enter the United Kingdom in this category for the first time, or who are applying to switch into the Tier 1 (General) category from another category. Anyone applying for an extension of their permission to stay under Tier 1 (General) will not be affected by the changes.
Once again demonstrating that I have no one to blame but myself for not doing it as soon as possible. If I had not waited when HSMP was in force AND I HAD A LETTER APPROVING ME, I would have missed the requirement to requalify via earnings upon renewal. If I has not waited when they announced the Tier 1 scheme, I would have missed having this latest requirement apply to me.
Well, better buckle down and finish the rest of the courses for my MA. Because otherwise I can't apply.
EFTA: Oh, this gets better and better. You can still claim a BA for 30 points for an extension. You just can't claim it for an initial application now. Oh, $%*$##&* ^*%$#$^!
God. Damn. It.
Edited Finally: Well, that does it. I checked the degree I would receive for the master's program I'm enrolled in, and for whatever reason (not explained), I get 0 points for it.
So unless I start an entirely new master's degree that meets whatever their mysterious qualifications are and complete it, I'm not eligible to apply for a Tier 1 visa. And I can't get in any other way.
And I've tried applying for master's programs at most of the local colleges and universities, and they won't accept me. Because I nearly failed an advanced calculus class and a computer science class I took in 1984. When I was getting a degree (with honours) in history and political science.
So I'm fucked.
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no subject
Date: 2009-04-08 12:55 pm (UTC)The OU is a highly respected university in the UK. The majority of students study by correspondence with some attendance at tutorials and summer schools. However, of late, they've been doing more and more work via the internet - ask them about studying with them from abroad.
no subject
Date: 2009-04-08 01:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-04-08 01:20 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-04-08 01:08 pm (UTC)Keep an eye on the talk.uk-yankee.com visa forums - people are trying to figure out wtf is going on with the NARIC equivalencies. (A lot of the groundwork is happening in the Advocacy forum but that's restricted access, and relevant info gets posted in the visas forum.)
Also, less useful, but would a long-distance degree from a UK university work? My master's was done that way, though admittedly I never tried to use it for anything visa-related.
I'd say come over, do a master's and stay, but I have the horrible feeling they're trying to chop off ways to switch visa tracks.
Argh. Just argh.
no subject
Date: 2009-04-08 01:45 pm (UTC)I rather suspect that I would not qualify. I've only checked one place previously (the terrorism studies program at St Andrews), but UK IHLs seem to have the same unbending standards that US ones do. Doesn't matter I've been gainfully employed at a postgraduate level for over 15 years--the fact that I didn't get a 3.5 GPA (US) 25+ years ago bars me from most masters' programs.
I'd say come over, do a master's and stay, but I have the horrible feeling they're trying to chop off ways to switch visa tracks.
Considering the level of disruption it would involve, I'm not sure I'm up for moving for a year or two with no reasonable hope of staying. It was bad enough when they instituted the requalification requirement for the Tier 1 General, but I had reason to suspect from talking to UK colleagues that If I worked really hard I would be able to earn enough to stay as an HSM.
[pause for research] OK, if I could qualify for a postgraduate program (again, I think this is the biggest problem), I could get a student visa, then apply for a post-study Tier 1 visa (which I would qualify for given that I had completed (a) a postgraduate degree, (b) at a UK institution, (c) while legally resident, (d) and received my degree within 12 months of making the application.
That would allow me another two years to transition to another type of Tier 1 visa. That would still be a bit of a challenge because I wouldn't have the income I do here to help. OTOH, I would have the extra points from the masters...
Well, it seems like it's paying the NARIC fees to at least find out what my BA will translate to in arcane British terminology (2:1, honestly, it all sounds like picture ratios for motion picture screens! :-)
Thanks. Between you and the Norn, I'm feeling a bit better. Still wish I could have a large glass of Scotch, bit I have to go to work still, so I think that will have to wait 10 hours or so.
no subject
Date: 2009-04-08 01:58 pm (UTC)Is that the main issue? - that if you CAN get points for your master's, you'd qualify?
It all sucks. It just all does.
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Date: 2009-04-08 02:13 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-04-08 10:16 pm (UTC)I had a 3.7 undergraduate GPA and that gave me a first in the UK system. A 3.0-3.4 is considered a 2:1.
I just was at a Passover Seder held by a woman who's an American working on a Ph.d at Bournemouth. She's allowed to work 20 hours a week on her student visa, btw. Anyway, she's planning/hoping to stay here after she completes her Ph.d. (She just started her studies last autumn.)
Another way to go: become a teacher. I'm serious. Get your teaching certificate in Virginia. Then you could come over the way I did initially -- be hired by an American school. (There is an international school in Aberdeen with an American curriculum of sorts, if you really want Scotland right away. It doesn't have a good rep, but it's there.) American schools still have an easy time getting visas for American teachers, trust me. (Some of the schools say they want two years' teaching experience, but I know folks at those schools who were hired without it.)
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Date: 2009-04-08 11:01 pm (UTC)I hope so. I did their online application today for an evaluation of my BA and sent off all the papers they needed by post on the way to work. Curiously, they didn't ask for a grades transcript.
I can't get them to rate my current master's program, even prospectively, since I haven't finished it and they require copies of your graduation certificate, but since they're now apparently treating all taught MAs as worthless, there's probably no point. :-(
I had a 3.7 undergraduate GPA and that gave me a first in the UK system. A 3.0-3.4 is considered a 2:1.
I may be SOL, then. My GPA was around a 2.8 or 2.9 (because of the stupid math and compsci courses). From the top small college in the nation, but of course that never counts for anything. Seems as if I would have been better off going to Virginia Tech and getting 4.0s if I ever wanted my undergraduate degree to mean anything. Funny, no one told me that at the time. :-(
She's allowed to work 20 hours a week on her student visa, btw.
What sort of work is she doing? According to the current UKBA rules, you are only allowed to work if you are doing a work placement directly connected to your degree program, and you are not allowed to be self-employed. No chance of my earning income as a freelance editor.
Another way to go: become a teacher. I'm serious. Get your teaching certificate in Virginia.
I will look into that again. You've suggested that before, but the only way that I could find then to do that involved quitting my current job and working several years as a student teacher and teacher here. And I'm not really interested in doing that--if I'm going to teach, I'd rather do it there. I'm not able to find anyone in the surrounding area that will just give one a teaching credential the way one can do a single-year course in the UK.
Also, teaching (except math and science, which I'll not be qualified to teach), is no longer an excepted occupation *anywhere* in the UK, so it's pretty much a no-go for getting a work permit. And history jobs (the only thing I'd be qualified to teach with a PGCE/PDGE) are almost nonexistent from everything I've seen, especially as most national or devolved education authorities seem to feel it's not something kids need to study. :-(
American schools still have an easy time getting visas for American teachers, trust me.
I'm puzzled as to how they can do that--everything I've seen from the Home Office says permits like that are simply not available unless the school can demonstrate there are *no* teachers in the entire EU to take the jobs. Even when I qualified for an HSMP visa, US employers with UK operations wouldn't talk to me because they were convinced they wouldn't be allowed to hire me.
Sorry, I don't mean to be so negative, it's just that I keep looking at different options and finding walls in the way, which is deeply depressing. I feel as if I have a lot of skills and work experience that would make me a valuable UK citizen, but it seems like the government don't care much about that, just about paperwork, fees, obstacles, and pandering to racist, bigoted, frightened voters.
no subject
Date: 2009-04-09 04:44 pm (UTC)2. Right now, she's looking for work in shops that will fit in with her uni hours. There aren't any jobs at the university for her; Bournemouth is trying to prove they're in the big leagues, so they only have actual Ph.ds teaching undergrads. She states she is legal to work 20 hours a week (no more) at any place that will hire her. I don't think she's wrong. Now, she arrived here last September, so I don't know if that makes a difference.
3. Are you sure they're treating all taught MAs as useless? That means that only MPhils in the UK are useful; my colleagues have taught MAs, not MPhils. One is about to embark on another taught MA next year in a different subject. (His first one is in English Lit; this new one will be in Creative Writing.) Where did you hear that all taught MAs are useless? That doesn't make any sense as it would invalidate a good number of MA programmes/courses here.
4. A 2.8 GPA would be a 2:2 here.
5. American schools have an easy time hiring American teachers because they teach an American curriculum; it's completely foreign to the national curriculum. Trust me; I taught the former for 19 years and I've been in the latter for the past seven. They are completely different. British teachers have to be re-trained to work at the American schools, just as I had to re-train myself (and it was stressful -- I kind of had to dive in head first) to work at an English school. They do have some British teachers there, but not that many -- and most of them are there due to their dissatisfaction with the English system, they have lived/taught in the US in the past or they want to teach US history. (One Englishwoman who taught US history when I was at TASIS holds a Ph.d in US history from the University of Kent. She didn't want to teach at universities, and she couldn't have specialised in US history at English schools and colleges.) They teach AP at the American schools; American teachers know what AP is, may have taught it, probably took the classes etc. British teachers don't tend to know what it is; IB still is pretty new here.
These American schools still hold recruitment fairs in the States -- I just checked a website about it.
6. There are history jobs in this country (we hired someone just last year at my college) -- where have you been checking for openings? Go beyond the TES and look at LEA websites along with individual schools and colleges' websites. I found my job through the college website; that was the only place it was advertised. History is required in England through Key Stage 3; students generally study either History or Geography for GCSE. After that, it's all optional.
Have you tried education agencies? I don't believe that they're no longer filling vacancies without bringing in people from outside of the EU.
Okay, so you don't have teaching qualifications. There isn't a way to do it part-time in the US any longer?
I mention teaching only because I know it's an easy way to get over here, especially via an American school. And once you're at the American school, you can get permanent residency within five years.
***
The thing is -- if you figure out a way to do -- DO IT NOW. It'll only get worse. That's why I finally went for citizenship last year, fearing it would become even more expensive in the future.
no subject
Date: 2009-04-09 05:29 pm (UTC)2. I suppose it's a question of whether the guidance that I read is a series of alternatives or a series of mutually limiting conditions. I assumed it was the latter. Either way it disallows self-employment, which would have been my preference.
3. Remember that we're talking about rating the degrees of prospective immigrants. But, yes, all taught MAs *from the US* are being rated as worth 0 points.
4. And the programs I've looked at so far all expect a 2:1 or better.
5. [American curriculum] Well, that may be how they get around the work permitting process then. Problem is, I don't have US teaching experience, and taking several years to get certified and experience here in the US *just so as to go teach in the UK* seems... problematic. Almost perverse. :-)
6. Last time I looked, a year or two ago, it was in a couple of UK teaching sites and their associated chat boards. At the time, the consensus was that there were many dozen applicants for any history teaching position, because so many people had come out of uni with a degree and found *poof* no jobs. If that's changed, it's good news. But, again, I'll be someone with a newly minted certificate and no experience.
Have you tried education agencies? I don't believe that they're no longer filling vacancies without bringing in people from outside of the EU.
They don't have ANY CHOICE. It is NOT LEGAL to apply for a work permit for a foreign worker if there is someone in the EU willing and able to apply for the job. An employer has to demonstrate that they have tried to fill a job from all possible EU candidates in order to get a work permit.
I appreciate your points, but I really don't see teaching as being a viable route at this point in time. I think the only practical choice open for me is the postgraduate study plan.
no subject
Date: 2009-04-09 05:45 pm (UTC)2. Are they not allowing self-employment in terms of setting up your own limited company? All I know is that she may work up to 20 hours a week without any issues. She didn't jobhunt right away as she was trying to get settled, and she didn't realise at first how necessary a car would be in order to become employed. She's starting to look for work now that she is settled and has bought a car. Her problem is fitting in work hours with her uni research.
3. Remember that US MAs tend to be a combination of taught and research. You're writing a thesis, yes?
4. It's true; they do tend to want that. However, I'd include your London hours and GPA to boost you to a 2:1.
5. Forget it then, although I know that those qualifications and teaching experience are what they prefer at the US-curriculum schools -- they don't always get it.
6. I don't know about the validity of those chat boards nor which sites you used. I personally know a couple of young men who walked right out of uni and PGCE into history teaching jobs at secondary school -- the school where I taught, the best one in the league tables for state schools in the county. That would have been 2004 and 2005. And I know we hired someone for A level History (part-time) this past year; she was 23 at the time and straight out of uni.
7. Schools often turn to agencies to hire people from other countries because there aren't any decent EU candidates. When I left the aforementioned school in 2007, there were few applicants -- yes, few applicants for a good school in Hampshire and for an English opening. And they weren't people we wanted to hire. I know. I met them. They may have had qualifications, but they were awful and just, well, weird. They wound up hiring a woman trying to emigrate from South Africa.
The reality is that, despite what the agencies and government say, there often are jobs available for immigrants because the EU applicants are non-existent or shite.
You have been applying for various jobs over here, right? It's the employers telling you they can't hire you, yes?
If you are going for the postgraduate study plan, then use your London undergrad credits to get yourself a 2:1.
But do it soon. Don't keep putting it off. It won't become any easier in the future.
no subject
Date: 2009-04-08 11:16 pm (UTC)So academically, I'm not even a second-class citizen--I'm a nonperson... so much for the vaunted Williams education! Somehow that hurts even more than the UK HO dismissing my 18 years of professional experience.
no subject
Date: 2009-04-09 04:49 pm (UTC)1) Does your current MA GPA help you? I mean, you have to earn A grades at MA level -- where I went, a 'B' was shameful and a 'C' meant you had to take over the class. I assume your grad school GPA is higher than 2.8.
2) What about emergency/alternative certification programmes -- and not just the ones for people who want to teach now?
no subject
Date: 2009-04-09 05:08 pm (UTC)My GPA so far for my MA is an unblemished 4.0. My GPA from my last two years of undergrad is a 3.16 (of course there has to be another issue--I spent one semester studying in a US program in London; Williams gave me course credit but didn't include the grades from that in my transcript; I have the transcript from the program, and if one includes those grade it bumps the # higher towards 3.3 or 3.4).
2. Well, I can find at least one of those here in Montgomery County but, again, that requires you to work for a year or two *here* before you're granted a certificate. If the point is that I want to teach in the UK, I'd rather do a PGDE in Scotland. The issue is not that I can't get training there, it's that I'm concerned that I can't get clearance to work as a teacher in the UK, whether I have training or not. Which goes back to the prior subthread, which I'll go to now. :-)
no subject
Date: 2009-04-09 05:31 pm (UTC)If you include those London grades, then you're up to a 2:1, btw. I'd add those into the mix. My sister had a similar issue when she spent her junior year at Heidelberg University. Her undergraduate college, Heidelburg College (in Ohio) didn't count those grades correctly, so her GPA seemed lower than it should have been. Her GPA was fine, but lack of those grades kept her from graduating with honours, as it did all of her classmates in that programme.
no subject
Date: 2009-04-09 05:51 pm (UTC)And I did it.
Yes, the UK government has raised the bar. However, I could still do it today the route I went then. Ian and I weren't married until March 2002 (and I moved here in August 2000) because I was in the 'marriage is a just a piece of paper -- who needs it' mood. He didn't bring me over on the fiance visa because in 2000 that meant I wouldn't have been able to work for six months. (That rule since has changed.)
no subject
Date: 2009-04-09 08:39 pm (UTC)To answer a question from above, my forecasts of who will hire whom are based in part on law, policy, and regulation from the Ho/ULBA, talking to an OISC-license immigration advisor, talking to people who live and work there, and making contact with prospective employers. The latter should really be "not making contact with..." since EVERY possible employer I've contacted (including the US multinational I currently work for) has said "we can't hire you", "we will talk to you when you are here in the UK with valid work papers and not before", or has simply not replied to requests for information. That's one reason I tend to be a bit negative, and it's also why I've concentrated on opportunities for self-employment, as the *only* people I've talked to who have been positive are the editors and proofreaders in the UK professional society I joined.
I had a post about all the reasons that I've put off moving, but I locked it because on looking at it again it seemed to me to be terribly whiny and "please tell me what a good person I am for making sacrifices for others" when the whole point of making sacrifices for others is that you do that because it's what you need to do, not because you expect to be (or should be) congratulated for it. It seemed very selfish when I reread it.
Anyway, once I have taken care of the last things that *I* feel are obligations here, I will be trying to move (unless it's simply become impossible). And I'm going to take the time between now and then (whenever 'then' is) to research and prepare, so as to be ready when the time comes. I don't want to be the guy in the story about the flood and the boat and the helicopter...
Again, thank you for your patience and encouragement. :-) It's good to have friends. :-)
no subject
Date: 2009-04-09 09:18 pm (UTC)I didn't move here out of any great love for the country. (I don't have any great love for any country, though.) Granted, I liked the country, but I moved here for a human being who didn't want to live in the US.
You love this country. Cut the ties to the US and just do it, darn it. Get over here. The thing is, there always will be obligations to keep you in the US. And you'll always second guess yourself and convince yourself it's a bad time to move. But if you really want to emigrate, do it. I will confess that I did take a year's unpaid leave of absence and only rented out my condo at first -- just in case.
I knew people who'd tried to transfer to the UK from their US multi-national companies; they were amongst the people who told me it was impossible to get a job over here. I proved them wrong.
It's good to hear that the editors and proofreaders have been positive. Build up those contacts! Since Ian's company died three years ago, his freelance contracts (all of his work) have been based on contacts in his business.
You won't become rich over here, but I think you know that fact.
no subject
Date: 2009-04-09 09:38 pm (UTC)Yeah, that was really frustrating, having an HR person with my corporation's UK office tell me they couldn't hire me when (a) I clearly knew more about UK immigration and employment law than she did and (b) I had in my (virtual) hand job listings they had put up on our company's *internal* website advertising positions to be filled.
You won't become rich over here, but I think you know that fact.
Yeah. I mean, my dad was a private-school teacher most of his life. I've *never* expected to be rich (though it's nice being comfortable, as I've been the last 10 years or so here in DC).
The thing is, there always will be obligations to keep you in the US.
True. There's one I really don't feel I have any choice about, that I *have* to see through, and another it would be handy, but not essential, to have done before I go.
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Date: 2009-04-09 10:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-04-10 01:25 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-04-08 02:55 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-04-08 03:16 pm (UTC)Alternatively, how about moving to Ireland instead of the UK? Except, umm, the economy's going down the pan; but apart from that...
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Date: 2009-04-08 03:20 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-04-08 03:53 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-04-08 03:18 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-04-08 04:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-04-08 05:11 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-04-08 04:30 pm (UTC)Of course, this doesn't make it any less crap, and as I just said on
no subject
Date: 2009-04-08 05:09 pm (UTC)[I assume you're referring to the thing that died several iterations back and is now represented by the Tier 1 Post Study Work Visa scheme...]
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Date: 2009-04-09 12:44 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-04-08 10:16 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-04-08 10:35 pm (UTC)