pointed out to me by shy_kay

[winterbadger]

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/050627fa_fact

This conjures up a number of reactions. Revulsion, fear, sadness, anger, pity. But most of all it brings me back to thinking about the role of religion in our country and in politics. That really takes some pondering.

Comments

[silme.livejournal.com]

For the past few years, I've been wondering about the US and that separation of church and state thing -- and what's happened to it.

[winterbadger]

I don't think there's any question that our country's founders expected governments to be elected and filled with religious men.

But I do think they wanted to prevent government from being beholden to and supporting one specific religious group or from using a state religion as an alternate tool of government power. And while the conservative Christian movement is not an established church of the sort that often abused its power in 17th and 18th century, I do think the leaders of the Christian conservative movement would like to break down something that I think was perhaps not intended by, but has certainly grown from, the work of the founders: a modern sensibility that religion is a deeply personal thing that has no place taking an overt role in government.

I think many secular modern Americans would be uncomfortable with the religious language that many 18th century Americans used in discussing government. But I think many 18th century American would be uncomfortable with the sort of connection that modern conservatives want to forge between government and religious institutions, especially government funds going to pay for the activities of churches and other religious groups.

[peaceful-fox.livejournal.com]

I thought this paragraph was especially creepy (emphasis on these is mine):

When Ross was sixteen, she wrote in her journal, “I don't want to spend my life having crushes on different guys.” She pledged to “love Christ with my whole heart and not fall in love with a guy for five years,” a period that she chose after hearing a lecture that compared committing to Christ to sticking to a long-term business plan. Du Mée's courtship proposal came exactly five days before her pledge expired.

and this:

Patrick Henry's campus is small, with one main building and a group of dorms clustered around a lake; the kids call it "the fishbowl." It can be a competitive, anxious place. Many students schedule their days in fifteen-minute increments and keep daily checklists over their desks (do crunches, read Bible, take vitamins, study). “Everyone here is going for the same prize,” Abby Pilgrim, a junior, told me. “Nothing here is chill.”

As you know, I have trouble with religion and politics, a subject that we disagree on, but not a *lot* as I understand your points in prior posts. What bothers me the most about this is that it's almost like "over achievers for Christ" where religion isn't about faith anymore it's about who's more popular among the religious right.

[winterbadger]

Well, I think it's a glimpse into the subculture of "OK, we all agree about the importance of Christian conservatism having a leading role in government and society, but how's the best way to achieve that?"

I don't mind people's views of religion influencing their politics; in fact, I would rather people have an ethical foundation for policy than simply act on self-interest, and religion is the most common ethical foundation in this country. What I object to is people using policy to *impose* their ethical and religious views on others.

But does that really make any sense? Don't I really *want* people to use law and government to impose ethical principles on society, just ethical principles that I beleive in?

I started to write a reply to that, and realized that its somethign I really need to sit and think about, and write out later (on my own time :-)

[peaceful-fox.livejournal.com]

What I object to is people using policy to *impose* their ethical and religious views on others.

Bingo! There's where we agree and I think in agreeing to this we can find a solution that would satisfy the both of us.

[azbound.livejournal.com]

My response to this article is, "You must be kidding..." It's like Automatons for Christ....

I was heartened by the idea that someone wrote an article about how Bono might be a better Christian than you, because in many ways, it's very true.

While I think it's great the parents want enough for their kids that they will sacrifice for them, I think it's sad that they think that it must include rolling them up in cotton.

[winterbadger]

Yeah, my response when Melissa first sent me the link was "Goes to confirm all my suspicions of the home-schooling movement (the 'let's not
let our children get polluted by mixing with people who might encouraged them to question our values of white, Christian supremacy')." I know not everyone who home-schools is like that, but that's my impression that's what really set the moevement off in a big way.

[blueinva.livejournal.com]

Hmm...I had a guy intern for me in the Fall from PH. I know aside from politics they also train students for entry into the State Department and Intelligence community.