(no subject)

[winterbadger]

Interesting comment by Baroness Williams of Crosby, a senior member of the LDP in the House of Lords (and (a) former Labour MP and (b) _daughter_ of Vera Brittain--who, I don't know about you, but I had to read again and again in every bloody class about WWI or women's studies)

from the Grauniad

Williams was particularly concerned that there has so far been no talk of securing the composition of the United [K]ingdom. She said: "I am very concerned that preventing the break-up of the union has played no part in the negotiation between the Tories and Lib Dems.

"The Tory party made no gains to speak of in Scotland in this election … and recently, the Tories have been talking almost entirely about England. My sense is that negotiations cannot conclude without it being made clear how to keep the nation together, because if we do make a deal with the Tories, we are handing Scotland to the SNP on a plate."

Nice that someone is noticing and thinking about this...

Comments

[fionnabhar.livejournal.com]

Heh-heh-heh.

[wcg.livejournal.com]

if we do make a deal with the Tories, we are handing Scotland to the SNP on a plate

Would that be a bad thing?

I'm not being rhetorical here. I honestly don't know. My emotional inclination is to think that Scotland would be better off, but that's influenced more by things that happened long ago than anything recent.

[winterbadger]

I'm torn. I love Scotland, and I feel as if it should have a chance to stand on its own after being dragooned into union and playing second fiddle for 300 years. I know a fair number of Scots, and many of them would like to have their own country without being governed by people who, as much as they share with them, they see as foreigners.

On the other hand, I'm not sure independence would be a good thing for Scotland. Scotland has contributed a lot to the UK in proportion to what it's received, but it *has* received a lot. Some Scots feel that they will do fine economically with North Sea oil to rely on, but I think that's a weak an slender reed, and I think the dream of Silicon Glen, turning Scotland into the next great IT powerhouse, is a long way from being realised.

And while I love Scotland, England and the UK as a whole has a place in my heart as well, and no matter what independence would mean for Scotland, I think it would be an unmitigated disaster for England and the UK (what would be left of it). At least in the short term, it would mean a huge economic hit, a major loss of prestige, and the end to a partnership that has had tremendous value and (IMO) created something that was greater than the sum of its parts. Most of all, I think it would encourage the forces of ultranationalism and bigotry, which have been seething during the period of devolution and finding more purchase in the national psyche due to the pains of European expansion and economic downturn.

What do my Scots readers think?

[cmlc.livejournal.com]

How Scotland would do independently is disputed, but I don't think that the UK us doing too well economically at the moment either - it's going to struggle to avoid going the same way as Greece sometime in the next few years as the contagion spreads onwards through the PIGS and beyond.

I think independence would mean less bigotry in Scotland, not more. It's the old line about losing a surly lodger and gaining a friendly neighbour. It might mean more in England though, I don't know, I'm not English.

You might be interested in how differently the different nations voted.

[winterbadger]

Yes, I wasn't thinking there would be increased bigotry in Scotland, but in England. The movement towards devolution in Scotland and Wales has, IMO, brought out the Little Englanders (the NF, the BNP, and the UKIP) who rage against the "ungratefulness" of the Celtic nations and fume about Scottish MPs making decisions in Westminster that affect England, while clearly ignoring the centuries of English MPs making decisions that affected Scotland (yes, Scotland wasn't unrepresented, but its MPs were in such a minority that they had little control over how their national wealth was used).

Culturally, I think the two countries have gained from being connected, but with the world as it is today, I don't see that changing much with Scottish independence. Economically, that's what I wonder about. I'm reminded of Franklin's remark at the beginning of our revolution, "Gentlemen, we must all hang together, or be assured, we will hang separately."