and a really annoying story, courtesy of the BBC

[winterbadger]

Israel says world backs offensive

Israel says Wednesday's decision by key world powers not to call for a halt to its Lebanon offensive has given it the green light to continue.

That ranks up there with "If she didn't want to get raped, she shouldn't have worn those clothes/walked in that neighborhood/been out without a man escorting her" in the world of sickeningly delusional self-justifications.

Yes, Israel, the rest of the world approves of your killing helpless civilians, bombing and shelling UN observers, destroying your neighbor's airports, bridges, roads, and dams.

It's as if Israel wants to justify all the horrid, bigoted, racist stereotypes that those who hate it have promoted. It's as if Israel looked at all the antiSemitic propaganda around the world and said "If that's how they see us, that's how we'll be."

According to the BBC article "A poll of Israelis published by Israel's Maariv daily newspaper suggests 82% back the continuing offensive and 95% say Israel's action is justified."

Congratulations, Israel. In less than a century, you have become a model of all the things that have caused Jews to suffer for centuries. You have betrayed the promise of your founding and the ideals of your faith. You have become a nation state no better than any other and much worse than some. Welcome to the club; are you sure you wanted to be a member?

Comments

[azbound.livejournal.com]

See, I don't know if I'd have gone with the rape analogy.

I liken it more to the pacifist, granola geek on the beach who has been getting sand kicked in his face by a steroided out Danny Zucco over and over again. NOw, with the help of his fellow geeky friends, our little Anthony Michael Hall circa Breakfast Club has buffed up and is ready to kick some ass back.

With or without the backing of the world, Israel is ready to go to the mat and rub Palestine's face in the sand.

Personally? I'd like to see this all settled with a high-stakes, no hold 'em round of Rock/Paper/Scissors.

[wolfette]

Uh, no. From it's very inception, Israel has NEVER been the "granola eating geek pacifist".

[azbound.livejournal.com]

IMO, they have been propped up enough to inspire the image. I'm not saying it's all true, as I do know the Israeli Armed Forces surpasses most. I also know those forces have been very heavily contributed to by their Western allies.

I still stand by the Rock/Scissors/Paper though.

[winterbadger]

That would assume that I thought the bombing of unarmed noncombatants, the destruction of civilian infrastructure, the illegal detentions, the torture, the assassinations, the racism, and the arrogant disregard of human suffering that Israel engages in is cute or funny or even remotely justified. I don't. I think it's despicable, atrocious, and appalling.

Terrorism is vile and hateful. It's vile and hateful when it's done by Arabs against Jews; it's vile and hateful when it's done by Jews against Arabs; it's vile and hateful when it's done by Muslims against Christians, or other Muslims, by insurgents agaisnt US troops or by US troops against helpless civilians.

The US is supposed to have a code: that we fight to defend ourselves and our allies. We're disregarding that, and it infuriates me. Jews are supposed to have a code: that we act to promote justice tempered with mercy and love. Israel has thrown that in the dirt and trampled on it. That sickens me.

[azbound.livejournal.com]

Well, then I guess I have a question:

Why do you think that Israel is doing this?

[wolfette]

"Israel" and "Judaism" now seem to be just a co-incidence.

[winterbadger]

Because they can. Because they believe, against 50 years of evidence (even if you discount the length of human history that says the same thing) that brutality, cruelty, and barbarism will frighten your enemies into submission.

What kills me is that all the nations of the Earth have, at different times, tried to doing this to the Jews, and it has NEVER worked. Jews have crawled out of the rubble of Jerusalem, of the first and second Temples, out of Egyptian and Assyrian and Roman slavery, out of medieval ghettos and ruined shtetls, out of the attempts of one of the most technologically advanced nations of the 20th century, bent on destroying thme as a people, they've dragged themsleves out, dusted themselves off, and proclaimed their existence and their continued belief in their G*d and their own ability to survice.

But they're still prepared to do all those things to other people. Why? Because they are angry and afraid and stupid. And gradually losing touch with the humanity and the decency and the belief in right over might that has been the guiding light of Jewish civilization. Israel worhsips Might now, not Right.

And what's going to be a bitter lesson is that what they're doing now, what they did in 1996 and in 1982, it DOESN'T WORK. The US is learning it in Iraq the cost of hundred of US lives and thousands of Iraqi ones every year, but Israel had the opportunity to learn this 20 years ago. You don't defeat irregular, insurgent, guerilla enemies with conventional armies. You just don't; no one ever has. You stop wars like this at the negotiating table and nowhere else. Unless you are prepared to engage in Serbian-style, Nazi-style genocide, which even the US would not tolerate.

But all the general in the IDF, they made their bones fighting the Arabs or training to fight the Arabs, in conventional armies, so that's all they know. And, surprise, surprise, after four wars and four defeats, the Arabs have finally learned how to fight in a way that can't be defeated in a week by conventional armies, that can't be defeated by conventional armies *at all*.

It's a pity that the last generation of generals (or the one before that) isn't around to council the IDF. They would recognise this style of war. It's how they drove the British out of Palestine. It isn't new. It's as old as the hills. And if the IDF and the IAF keep trying to fight it the way they are now, it will only increase the size of the their enemies' armies and chip away at their (already thin) base of support.

[dativesingular.livejournal.com]

I don't know if you intended it to read this way, but I think in this comment it would be best to replace "Jews" with "Israelis." I know a few Jews who are just as appalled, and I'm sure there are more than just the Jewish members of my FL.

Just my two cents.

[winterbadger]

I *think* I have been careful to use "Jews" every place I meant it, and to say "Israel", "Israelis", and "the IDF" every place I meant to. But I may have slipped up, so if there's something specific you see, point it out to me. It's not my intention to use the terms interchangeably. I'm a Jew, and I'm appalled.

In the past, I'd even have havered about using even those terms so generally; I know there are people of conscience among Israeli Jews and in the IDF. But whatever protests they are making are being drowned out. At some point, all Israelis are accountable to some extent for what's being done in their name, just as all Americans are to some extent accountable for our despicable current government.

[dativesingular.livejournal.com]

Jews have crawled out of the rubble of Jerusalem, of the first and second Temples, out of Egyptian and Assyrian and Roman slavery, out of medieval ghettos and ruined shtetls, out of the attempts of one of the most technologically advanced nations of the 20th century, bent on destroying thme as a people, they've dragged themsleves out, dusted themselves off, and proclaimed their existence and their continued belief in their G*d and their own ability to survice.

But they're still prepared to do all those things to other people. Why? Because they are angry and afraid and stupid.

It just looks like a case of forgetting your antecedents. S'okay, I've done it too. :)

And yeah, I agree. I feel powerless to do much, but I did sign a petition against it in town today and apparently there's going to be a demonstration in front of the town hall this Saturday. I'd go, but I'm going to be on the IOM.

[winterbadger]

Thanks for pointing that out! Since it's comment, I can only delete it and replace it, not edit it, so I'll leave it, and anyone who reads the comments will see that I'm acknowledging that the following sentence should read "But Israel are still prepared to do all those things to other people."

I'm a bit leery of most of the protests I've seen notices for, because I *do* believe that Israel has a right to defend itself and that what Hezbollah have been doing is wicked and wrong. But I also feel that what Israel is doing in reaction is going to do them little long-term good and lots of present-day harm to those least involved in the war. :-(

[dativesingular.livejournal.com]

I do feel they have a right to defend themselves as well--this one was specifically against the bombing of Lebanon, but supported negotiations. Basically, looking for a nonviolent solution to all this.

[winterbadger]

From their mouths to God's ear... :-(