Initially it was understandable. People in the throes of sudden emotional upset tend not to be rational. So a bit of mouth froth on November 2nd and 3rd was...well, excusable.
It is interesting to watch: generated quite a lot of comment.
I was disturbed by the comment at the end about Islam-- as though that were generic-- speaking fo itnerfaith matters. Still, the nubmer of folks who mention that they don't mention their religious faith or practice is of course precisely why mostly evanglicals (of whatever denomination and whether politically right or left) and conservative Christians are both confussed with each other by non-religious or practicing folks and also tend to be those identified as Christians by anyone who is not.
I was disturbed by the comment at the end about Islam--as though that were generic--speaking of interfaith matters.
Well, that's exactly his point. People often treat Christianity as if it were one huge monolithic religion, but the same people seem not to treat other religions in the same way or to hold other religions to the same standards they hold Christianity to.
Of course, I think the main reasons there's a great deal more uninformed and broad-brush criticism of Christianity than Islam in the press and in LJ is because (a) what we're experiencing most right now is upset over the election, and most people don't see Islam as having played as big a role in the election as Christianity and (b) most of the people complaining about religion haven't come in contact with Islam much, whereas they have most of them had some sort of bad experience with Christianity. In any case, they think they know something about Christianity (even when what they think they know is often incorrect or badly distorted), but they probably aren't under the illusion that they know much about Islam.
My favourite comment was the one from a woman who said something along the lines of "Oh, yes, I know just what you mean. I mean, I'm a Kemetic Orthodox priestess and I do lots of interfaith work and..." This is one reason I could never be UU; I simply can't take everyone's religious beleifs seriously.
On looking up her comment, I see she also said "I use the word acceptance, rather than "tolerance". I say that because to tolerate something, it implies you are not necessarily accepting of it it in a live and let live fashion, but rather still have a sense of superiority that your way is better and you are merely putting up with the other guy's difference of doctrine and belief."
While there are many religions that accept that others may have different beliefs, I don't think that there are many that don't maintain that their beliefs are superior. Otherwise why would they preach them? I can see it now: High Priest/Bishop/Panjandrum of the Church of Smith "Well, of course, there are the Jonesites. And their religion is all very well. In fact, worship Jones, worship Smith, it really doesn't matter. You might as well follow one as the other--not much difference." Mmmm, yeah.
yeah, I didn't knwo what that was and thought it silly.
as to the question of "superiority," well, there's one main Scirptual verse that suggest that's what Christians must beelive-- as we've discussed, the verse in John (a synoptic gospel written about a hundred years after the other canonical texts, I add) that suggests that Christians-- that is, followers of the Christ-- are to beleive that Jesus is the only way to God the Father. And I also hear that quoted most often by leaders of the Southern Baptist Convention.
But there is also a great deal of litrugical language that guards agaisnt sins of pride and such that woudl lead others to actually feel that their beleifs were "superior" to those of others. And while we do pray as part of the Eucharist in the Episcopal Church for God to "put all things in subjection under your Christ," it is a prayer for God to do what we beleive God has done in God;s self, through Christ-- which is spread the Spirit even to the gentiles.
It is distinctly not a call for humans to disrespect each other or have pissing contests about "their gods."
And from what I know of other Abramix religiosn (which is not a great deal), the same can be said of the overall meanign of those texts. Picking ad choosing verses can usually have folsk sayign that their religion says what they think it means-- one of the very things that certainly the rabbi Jesus of the gospels warned agaisnt. . . )
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timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2004-11-15 08:36 pm (UTC)it's certainly interesting to watch.
no subject
Date: 2004-11-16 04:14 am (UTC)What's disturbing is that it continues.
no subject
Date: 2004-11-16 06:31 pm (UTC)I was disturbed by the comment at the end about Islam-- as though that were generic-- speaking fo itnerfaith matters. Still, the nubmer of folks who mention that they don't mention their religious faith or practice is of course precisely why mostly evanglicals (of whatever denomination and whether politically right or left) and conservative Christians are both confussed with each other by non-religious or practicing folks and also tend to be those identified as Christians by anyone who is not.
no subject
Date: 2004-11-16 06:56 pm (UTC)Well, that's exactly his point. People often treat Christianity as if it were one huge monolithic religion, but the same people seem not to treat other religions in the same way or to hold other religions to the same standards they hold Christianity to.
Of course, I think the main reasons there's a great deal more uninformed and broad-brush criticism of Christianity than Islam in the press and in LJ is because (a) what we're experiencing most right now is upset over the election, and most people don't see Islam as having played as big a role in the election as Christianity and (b) most of the people complaining about religion haven't come in contact with Islam much, whereas they have most of them had some sort of bad experience with Christianity. In any case, they think they know something about Christianity (even when what they think they know is often incorrect or badly distorted), but they probably aren't under the illusion that they know much about Islam.
My favourite comment was the one from a woman who said something along the lines of "Oh, yes, I know just what you mean. I mean, I'm a Kemetic Orthodox priestess and I do lots of interfaith work and..." This is one reason I could never be UU; I simply can't take everyone's religious beleifs seriously.
no subject
Date: 2004-11-16 07:04 pm (UTC)While there are many religions that accept that others may have different beliefs, I don't think that there are many that don't maintain that their beliefs are superior. Otherwise why would they preach them? I can see it now: High Priest/Bishop/Panjandrum of the Church of Smith "Well, of course, there are the Jonesites. And their religion is all very well. In fact, worship Jones, worship Smith, it really doesn't matter. You might as well follow one as the other--not much difference." Mmmm, yeah.
no subject
Date: 2004-11-16 10:15 pm (UTC)yeah, I didn't knwo what that was and thought it silly.
as to the question of "superiority," well, there's one main Scirptual verse that suggest that's what Christians must beelive-- as we've discussed, the verse in John (a synoptic gospel written about a hundred years after the other canonical texts, I add) that suggests that Christians-- that is, followers of the Christ-- are to beleive that Jesus is the only way to God the Father. And I also hear that quoted most often by leaders of the Southern Baptist Convention.
But there is also a great deal of litrugical language that guards agaisnt sins of pride and such that woudl lead others to actually feel that their beleifs were "superior" to those of others. And while we do pray as part of the Eucharist in the Episcopal Church for God to "put all things in subjection under your Christ," it is a prayer for God to do what we beleive God has done in God;s self, through Christ-- which is spread the Spirit even to the gentiles.
It is distinctly not a call for humans to disrespect each other or have pissing contests about "their gods."
And from what I know of other Abramix religiosn (which is not a great deal), the same can be said of the overall meanign of those texts. Picking ad choosing verses can usually have folsk sayign that their religion says what they think it means-- one of the very things that certainly the rabbi Jesus of the gospels warned agaisnt. . . )